Episode 92: Apply ‘Mindset’ by Carol Dweck to Your Business (Making Good Book Club #1)
Lauren Tilden
Welcome back to Making Good, the podcasts for small businesses who want to make a big impact. I'm your host, Lauren Tilden, and this is episode 92. Today is a very special day because it's the first ever edition of The Making Good book club. If you missed the announcement on episode 87, here's the short version. Making Good now has a book club. Once a month, my co host Charelle and I will discuss a book we think can help move the needle in your small business. And we'll share our takeaways specifically for small businesses. My co host is a marketing strategist and book lover, Charelle Griffith. Charelle is an amazing small business owner who adds so much to the conversation around these books and I'm so glad she's agreed to join me on this journey. If you want to get to know Charelle better, definitely go have a listen to episode 87. Today in this first book club episode, we're talking about the book Mindset by Carol Dweck. We discuss what the book is about our key takeaways and our ideas about applying it to your small business. And then at the end of the episode, we share our choice for next month's book club. Just a reminder that if you want the updates on the book club, you can sign up to get notified at makinggoodpodcast.com/bookclub.
Okay, so before we get into all of the good stuff, one more big update from me, the doors to Making Good Happen are officially open. And I am so excited. I've had such amazing small business owners sign up from all kinds of different business categories. And I absolutely cannot wait to work with those of you who have already signed up. And if you haven't already signed up and you're wondering, what is Making Good Happen? Well, let me tell you, one thing that I know all too well as that it's one thing to learn the things that will help our businesses thrive. And it's another thing entirely to actually take the actions we need to take. It's the action that changes things for us, not the learning by itself. And that's what Making Good Happen is all about. Making Good Happen as a monthly membership designed to help you custom build a marketing plan for your business, and more importantly to take the actions you want to take day in and day out to see the results you want to see in your business.
Making Good Happen includes a private members only podcast called, you guessed it Making Good Happen. There'll be short and sweet episodes every weekday ranging from many pep talks to journaling prompts to action items. It includes deep work sessions so these are kind of like co working on zoom but with no video or audio to minimize distractions. It includes guided monthly marketing plan creation, an online community of other like minded small business owners, accountability tracking of your most important deadlines, guest expert presentations each month, and more stuff that is a surprise and some bonuses, so that we can all kick off 2022 with a bang Making Good Happen is officially launching the first Monday in January, January 3 2022. So if you want to start 2022 with an intentional strategic marketing plan that you actually execute, and an amazing community join us and Making Good Happen. If you're interested in joining you can head to makinggoodpodcast.com/happen and sign up for an email with all the juicy details. Now because this is the first time I'm ever offering this program, you can join and get this monthly price for as long as you remember at the lowest rate it will ever be available at if you sign up within the next couple of days by December 18. This is a ridiculously good deal and I would so love to have you join again, you can get all of the details at making goodpodcast.com/happen. Without further ado, here's episode one of Making Good book club all about Mindset by Carol Dweck.
Charelle we're here it is the first ever episode of The Making Good book club.
Charelle Griffith
I am so excited. I can't believe it's finally happening. I'm so excited. Such a good book. Great way to kick it off. I'm so excited, Lauren.
Lauren Tilden
I know. I know. I feel like we've picked the perfect place to start. And for those of you who may be just stumbled upon this episode, the first edition of The Making Good Book Club is on the book Mindset by Carol Dweck. And that's what we're gonna be talking all about today, talking about the highlights of the book, the main takeaways, and then importantly, how we can apply what we've learned to our small businesses. And before we dig in, we thought it'd be fun to just check in a little bit with each of us and see what's going on in our businesses and what's new before we sort of dig into the weeds of all things minds.
Charelle Griffith
So December is a busy time of year for me because when it comes to planning, that's one of my like, we'll supermarket, supermarket? superpowers. And so I've been running 2022 strategy days so I'm working with business owners one on one to create their annual plan for next year. So I have run a few still got a few more to go. So I've run them into January as well. So yeah, busy time for me, but I love it. There's nothing that gets me more excited than like sitting down with people thinking, what are you going to achieve next year? And then create a plan to make it happen. So yeah, good time of year for me.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, that's fine. Yes, for me, it is also a super busy time of year. So this episode comes out December 15. We're in November as we record, but still, it's end of year madness for retailers. So we're busy stocking up the shop and I'm about to launch my holiday stationery collection. We've got all of our like, in the US black Friday's a huge big deal. All the holiday promotions, shipping deadlines, just kind of getting our heads around all of the messaging that goes into all of that. And luckily, I have a little bit of a team to help with the operational side, and I kind of stick to the marketing. So that's what that is. I'm knee deep, neck deep, chin deep, and all of that right now.
Charelle Griffith
You just have an eye popping out. It's just popping out above.
Lauren Tilden
Exactly. Um, well, I think this is the perfect time of year for the conversation we're about to have. You and I are, we both agreed that mindset would be a great place to start because I think it is easy to underestimate, I know, it's easy to underestimate the impact that your mindset can have on the results that you see in your business and how things go for you. This is something I did not anticipate, really, when I started out in small business land, I just kind of thought it was all about the tactics and the strategies and the courses and implementing. And I did not realize how important it would be for me to really get my head screwed on, right. But I really didn't have the language around the different ways that my mindset was affecting me until I read this book mindset. So as people are thinking about entering January and a new year of their business, I think this is just such a perfect foundation that we can lay and start, you know, really approaching in the new year with a new mindset, or at least a refreshed mindset. So super glad we're starting here. Let's start by talking about just what is this book about? I mean, what are the key takeaways that you could have taken away from reading this book, Charelle.
Charelle Griffith
So I think for me, as you were saying, mindset is something that, as a small business owner, you've got to work on. And I think I like you like virtually everyone else I've ever known. It's only once you start running a business, I think you realize how much personal development and personal growth work needs to happen. But the thing about mindset, I think, when you think of it, when we think about our mindset, like Oh, I gotta change it. And you might have heard people say, like, you need to, like, look at your limiting beliefs or identify what your thoughts are and what their mindset is. And so when I first read this book, I was like, expecting it to be, I suppose a bit around that. And it wasn't at all like actually, for me, what really stood out about the book straightaway was just this idea of like the two different types of mindsets that people have. So rather than necessarily digging deep into like, particular belief, this actual concept of being basically you can have a fixed mindset, or you can have a growth mindset, and how and that whole level of just depending on which side of the scale you set that has a massive impact on the rest of your life in so many different ways.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like one of the well actually, first let's define fixed mindset and growth mindset. Because I think that's really, for me over and over again, throughout the book, like just really getting your head around what each of these two things looks like, is sort of a core outcome of a core takeaway that I have of the book is like really understanding what they are. The book has tons of examples of different people, athletes, business leaders, students who have exhibited one of these two mindsets, and how that has has affected the course of whatever they're doing. And I think it's important, an important point that she makes several times in the book is that we all have probably both of these mindsets in different ways that you're not 100% of growth mindset person or 100% of fixed mindset person, but we tend to kind of lean on one more than the other and that affects of course, pretty much everything in our lives.
So let's define them and I think I pulled up the page where she first defines them so I'll just read her definitions and then Charelle, if you want to maybe translate that to I don't know non academic speech or take away from that. Okay, so she says believing that your qualities are carved in stone, the fixed mindset, creates an urgency to prove yourself over and over. If you only have a certain amount of intelligence, a certain personality and a certain moral character, well, then you better prove that you have a healthy dose of them. So, fixed mindset is believing that your qualities are fixed in stone, your capabilities, your intelligence, those things. The growth mindset is based on the belief that your basic qualities are things that you can cultivate through your efforts, your strategies and help from others.
So what, yeah, translate that for me.
Charelle Griffith
So I think so fixed, I see very much this idea of like, we sort of are what we are born, that makes sense, this idea, then actually, our qualities are probably formed from quite a young age. And that is the reality of how we see the rest of our life. And we sort of put ourselves in a box. And we think that we do not have the ability to change, we think that qualities are just something that you either are or you aren't, you have them or you don't. And by the time you become a certain age, you sort of think that's who I'm going to be for the rest of my life. That's what I take fixed mindset to be.
Whereas growth mindset is this idea that change can happen. And actually, these things, all these qualities that we have, as individuals are not fixed in stone. And even if there's been part of your life for a certain amount of time, there is no reason why you can't change but as the quote you read, it said about, like, through effort through strategies and help from others, like this isn't going to change overnight. And I think this taps in a little bit to like how we have habits and how like our natural behaviors. So it's not like you're just gonna go to flick a switch, no change, but through concentrated effort through awareness, and through trying to change you do have the ability to change.
Lauren Tilden
And the main thesis of the book is really that the most the people who I guess accomplish the most and see the most success, whatever that looks like for them, whether it's academically or in business, or in sports, just the highest performers, highest achievers are those with the growth mindset, not the in the fixed mindset can really hold us back. And what is interesting is that it's so, in my experience, and even my life, like the fixed mindset is so ingrained to like everything. A big thing with a fixed mindset is labeling and judging things. So, you know, when your parents call you, like smart, or you're so good at that, or you're so naturally talented. Interestingly, what we take away from that is, I'm naturally smart. So I can't show I can't basically, if I put an effort into being smart, like if I have to study to be smart, for example, that means I'm not naturally smart. I guess I don't know if I'm explaining this well, but like the idea of being a natural at something is something that we start to pride ourselves on, rather than priding ourselves on, you know, working hard and getting better through hard work.
Charelle Griffith
Yeah. And the book talks about this idea that we just, we don't actually reward people with hard work we do seem to have no appreciation and affection to people just seem to be naturally talented and gifted. That's what we're like, oh my gosh, these are like superstars or that they're super formers like, where they come from, where is the people that seem to have worked for it, actually, we have a different mentality and attitude to them.
Lauren Tilden
Right. But even the so called naturals like, often, if you're a quote unquote, natural, you have this natural talent or ability, but you don't put in the hard work that these people are often over calm or surpassed by the people who maybe didn't start out like with the quote unquote, natural ability, but we're the people who put in the work and the practice and the effort. And I can think about this in my own life, like I was a pretty naturally talented softball pitcher. And I didn't have to work very hard to be a good pitcher, pitcher's position and softball.
Charelle Griffith
And I was guessing that.
Lauren Tilden
So and so in the beginning, it was like, I was so good. I was, I tended to be better than people in other teams. But I didn't, like I guess I got some kind of gratification about being a natural at it and I didn't put in as much work as other people. And like, as I got into high school people surpassed my abilities because they were putting the work in they weren't, you know, viewing themselves as a natural and eventually I quit. So I mean, I've I can think of so many examples in my own life where I can see my fixed mindset showing up. Because two people with a fixed mindset, the idea of putting effort into something and working really hard and then that not paying off like being cut from the softball team or not getting into that college like that is so unfathomably difficult for people with a fixed mindset, the idea that you could put effort into something and still not be good enough. So we kind of self sabotage ourselves by just like not putting the effort in, and then you have something to blame it on, if it doesn't go your way.
Charelle Griffith
Yeah, and I think like you mentioned earlier about labeling, and I think that's something that I really could resonate with, to like, as a child, I was definitely someone that was like, Oh, you're really good at math, and I wasn't good at English. And that for a very long time, I just internalized that and absolutely, like, it was unquestionable that I'm really good at math. And even now, I'll say a lot. Like, I'm really good at math, I'm really good at numbers. That's why I do like pricing and profit with people and given the numbers all day long. And actually, I just totally internalized that, and probably never, ever questioned it again, where is the label or like not being good at English has been a label that for a very long time, stopped me probably trying to even improve in that area, because I felt like it was pointless. And it has only been like, actually, since I've started a business and having to blog and having to write content for business, that really pushed me to like, be like, this is a label someone else gave you. And you don't need to keep you don't have to believe it. Like, yes, that was you when you were 10. That's not you when you're a 30 year old.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, she makes a great point in the book about stereotypes. For example, I mean, you just use this example of not being good at math, a lot of us grew up with just like the cultural idea that women or girls weren't as good at math and science as boys were. And I think this has shifted, but when I was little, that was definitely the case. And so she shares a bunch of studies in the book about how if you ask someone to fill in their gender, before they take a math test, for example, basically, you're just reminding them of the stereotype. So they're just turning the box to say I am a, I'm a woman or I identify as a female, that actually will affect their test results, because they are reminding them of this, like a stereotype that has been placed on women. Whereas when they gave the same test to people, but did not say anything about their sex, or gender in the beginning, then the results were pretty equal across the board for girls and boys in their math performance.
So I think, obviously, this is a problem of these stereotypes, that can be something that women experience, people of color experience, and a lot of other groups experience. So she talks about how the growth mindset can really help you not be affected by these stereotypes as strongly.
I think for me, another huge takeaway from the book was around how we react to setbacks, and obstacles that we experience. And I feel like until pretty recently, definitely resonated much more with the fixed mindset. I can see so many experiences from my life are about just giving up if it didn't go well, one time, or just believing certain things about myself. So here's an example about setbacks. I took in college, I took an art class, and I'd always been kind of interested in art, but it wasn't really my focus.
Growing up, I was more into sports than just hanging out with my friends. And I really didn't do a lot of art on my own. But I always identified as creative, um, like, artistic and I was like, Oh, um, you know, I'm in college, I went to a liberal arts school. So I was exploring a lot of different topics. I was like, well, maybe I'll take an art class. So I did. And I took an art class. It was at 8:30am, two days a week, which was very, very early for my college career. I got up to this class, it was a longer class than most classes, like, it was two hours or something each one I put so much effort into this drawing class. And at the end of the semester, I basically, the teacher hadn't really graded us throughout, it was just kind of like, submitted your work and you got feedback. And then I had, so I had no idea what to expect. But I was like, oh, you know, I'm creative. I put so much effort into this class, it's gonna be fine. It ended up being my lowest grade of the semester. And I was pretty heartbroken about it. Not so much because it was a low grade like it was fine. It was okay. But it just to me, it told me like, Oh, you did well in these other classes like economics and writing and whatever. You did not do well in this art class. So therefore, you are not creative. You are not an artist. And I didn't take any more because of my fixed mindset. Looking back. I just gave up on it. And I said, Okay, that's not my thing. I labeled myself now as I'm not creative. I'm not an artist. I'm going to move on to the things I am good at.
And so I didn't take any more art classes, I didn't even do it as a hobby really for, like 10 years. And then what's funny is that when I finally kind of found my way back to it, and was willing to try it again and put some effort into practicing, like, it ended up being what has kind of led my career in the direction that it's led, like, I quit my marketing job, I started a stationery business based on my calligraphy and watercolor. So but I mean, that was like 10 years of my life based on a tiny, you know, piece of feedback that basically I just let completely dictate the future of my life. So I mean, that's one example in my life from just.
Charelle Griffith
I mean, that's, that's such a story now given exactly like what you said, what you do in your business, and it's like, thank you for sharing that, can totally be really useful to like all the listeners, because actually, that's really easy to happen that literally someone says one thing, one incident, and all of a sudden, as you said, if you have a fixed mindset, you then put a label and you've basically like, I failed at something, and then you like, okay, fine, that's it, I'm not good at it, I'm never going to be good at it on to the next. And because particularly, I think if you are success driven, there was a lot of other things, people out there. And that sort of literature that will say, you know, focus on what you're good at, like, you know, tap into what your superpower is, focus on the one thing or that type of chore. So then it's easy, if something hasn't been natural, it didn't come to you straight away. For you feel like well, this isn't something I meant to be focusing on. And then just like you did, just walk away from it. So I think actually, it can be a massive issue. And sometimes we do give up way too quickly and has stopped us from probably following some of that would have been amazing for us. But luckily, in your case, he came around to it. So it's all good.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I did, but it took a while and it, you know it, I do feel like in the beginning of my career, it was just a lot of doing things that other people told me I was good at. And so I was like, oh, that must be the thing I should do, rather than really listening to like what I love to do. And even if it wasn't the thing I was most naturally, quote unquote, naturally gifted at. I guess I yeah, I just always believed that like, there were things that I was good at and there's things that I was not and like that's how to find success is just to follow the things that maybe feel like in the beginning, you're good at? Yeah, absolutely.
Charelle Griffith
One, that's a very natural thing to do. And yeah, I think when you mentioned about like, he failed that class, like that connects back to the books, that whole attitude around failure. And it says like the difference between saying I failed, and I am a failure. So this idea of like failure being an incident, versus making you a failure as your identity. And that was something I really resonated with in the book. And I thought actually, yeah, I can really see how easy it is when you fail to describe yourself as a failure. And therefore once you take on the identity that impacts other parts of your life, because you see yourself as a failure.
Whereas what she says is like people with a growth mindset, are able to keep on moving, because they're just like, I failed at this, I failed once I get back up, or I failed and that's just the reality of trying something new. Like, you know, we all when we're trying to learn to walk or none of us stand up and start walking back, we all fall over and we get back up, that's part of life. And this idea of actually, once you can start to separate it and stop seeing failure as an identity, like yourself as an identity and just seeing it as an incident. And something that's happening. That's what enabled you to start to build that growth mindset and keep on going.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, I love that. And I think another thing I took away from the book with regards to failure is that actually failure is not the opposite of success. It's, it's the path to success, right? So being willing to try things and put it out there. And like the process of failing is how we learn and learning is how we find success. So it like really striving for failure almost, is something that I took away, like just being willing to do things and know that it's not going to go right the first time all always but you have to do at one time to kind of get to the next time where you're a little bit better and a little more capable. So yeah, that's a great thing to bring up. Let's talk about how to apply all of this to small businesses. And the reason that I am transitioning at this exact moment is because as you're talking about failure, and as we're talking about being willing to fail, what that makes me think of is live video.
Charelle Griffith
Of all the things in the world, live video.
Lauren Tilden
Live video, live video, because I think this is something that really holds people back. I mean right now in the marketing world. Video is very important. It's being promoted heavily by all the major platforms, we kind of know that video is something that I don't want to use the word should, but that if we were to be willing to do video, whether it's showing up on your Instagram stories, or reels or whatever it is, that that could have a pretty positive impact on our businesses and in our marketing. But a lot of us are not willing to do that because we don't feel comfortable, we don't feel like we're good at talking on video. And I feel like this is really like a fixed mindset versus growth mindset opportunity. If you can channel the growth, growth mindset and really put yourself into the growth mindset.
Being willing to show up live video, for example, being willing to go, talk to your stories throughout something I know that you do, which like much more than I do, which I am inspired by, you get better after, you know, every day you get a little more comfortable, you get a little less, like awkward, you get a little bit more familiar with what it feels like and how to stay focused and you know, talk in a way that really connects so the only way though to get from I'm uncomfortable with live video, I don't want to be on my video, I don't want to show my face, the only way to get from there to being comfortable and seeing results from it is by doing it. Even if you know you're not going to be awesome at it in the beginning. Like that's the inevitable path to it. So, that's just something that came to my mind immediately was between fixed and growth mindset is, you really have to channel that growth mindset when it comes to putting yourself out there in all marketing ways. But in particular video.
Charelle Griffith
So interesting, because that's definitely not what came to my head. But that's the joy of someone like wow, mine actually was about tech. Because I come across so many people who have such a fixed mindset around around tech just in general that they're like, I'm not techie, I don't understand tech, like how on earth would I ever be able to do a tech talk or reel or edit something like, you know, when they just have such a mind blank just did like this is not going to happen at all, in any way, shape, or form. And it's always one of those things where I feel as if at what point in the past did you make a decision that you aren't good at tech, because I think actually I'm like quite lucky in terms of I did quite a bit when I was in secondary school of like, of IT.
Technology, whatever it was, I think was ICT there like information communication technology. But it meant that actually, I was always willing to try like, I remember trying to learn HTML, and being like you would code stuff, and then you'd press like, refresh or whatever and then like all the websites totally disappeared. Great. So you know, all that type of stuff used to happen. And so I've always been just thrown myself into trying tech. And it's not that I would say I'm good at it. But I've just always given it a go. So I suppose my, when I meet people that just I can tell I just have such a fixed mindset around tech, that they're just like, it's never it's not for me, it's never going to be for me, I'm like, well, actually, things have changed. And, you know, apps are trying to get be like more friendly and more intuitive and all this type of stuff. When was the last time you actually tried to do something rather than just assuming it wasn't for you straight away?
Lauren Tilden
Yeah. And I think another point that she makes in the book is that having a growth mindset doesn't feel it doesn't mean that you're excited about, for in this case tech, it doesn't mean you're like, oh, I'm so excited to jump in and figure out this tech that will help me, whatever, set up a sales page or get my products listed on my website in the way that I want them to be. It doesn't mean that you're excited that you feel comfortable that you feel like it's your thing, having a growth mindset is really just being willing to take an action anyway, right. So you don't have to feel like on top of the world about a particular topic or part of your business or part of your life. But the point that she makes in the book is when you read, when you notice yourself having a fixed mindset about something and that's holding you back.
Part of putting on a growth mindset is just to be willing to do something to put in the effort to practice. And to not just say, Okay, tomorrow, I'm going to figure out this tech thing, but to make a very concrete plan about how you're going to do that. So not tomorrow, I'm going to figure out this tech thing. But tomorrow, I'm going to sit down at my desk at 10am with a cup of coffee and I'm going to go search the Help forums for like the answer to this problem that I have or whatever it is but really getting specific and like granular about what you're going to do, I think is really critical and not something that I can really relate to is just I have a lot of like examples in my background, where I've been like oh, I'm gonna do this tomorrow, like the diet starts tomorrow or this starts tomorrow, whatever it is. But if you don't get really specific about what that plan looks like, then you're just kind of setting yourself up to not do anything.
Charelle Griffith
Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. And I think, like, I mean, I'm all for planning, and I'm all for, like, action taking. So I think I'm been quite lucky that I think was I've decided, it's an area I'm going to push myself into. I think, in that side of things, a growth mindset has been something I have embraced, I suppose a bit more than the last few years, I think I actually read this book like four years ago. And so there has been an impact of reading it, but what I can definitely still see, I think, other people and like when we're talking about like, as a small business, how does the book really apply is both like for you as an individual, and when you start to build a team is this idea around creating an environment where failure is accepted, and non perfection is accepted.
And I think particularly, I found small business owners that have real, like, high expectations, high quality, high standard, which are all amazing things. Like, I'm not telling anyone to put something out as substandard and like, give people a bad service, or like create a subpar quality product. But there is, there is a difference between I suppose strive for perfection, to the point where it stops you because as long as I was saying earlier, there was a learning curve. And so the, if you're just trying something new, you could, it's gonna be a bit not great, the beginner and you're going to have to do it a few times before you get up to a certain acceptable standard. But creating that environment where that is allowed. And whether that means there is the time required for you to be able to actually do the hours to get it to the sound you need to or to develop that skill, I think that's a really important thing to consider.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, yeah. And that just makes me think of the idea of celebrating like the effort that people put in, rather than just always the results that they get. So you know, if you have a team or even just for yourself, like you say, if you've been working really hard at something or someone on your team has, even if they're not there yet, like really making the goal that people are putting an effort to get better and to learn and to progress, like that's as managing yourself or a team, whoever it is, or parenting, like whatever the kind of example is, but really having a focus on effort, like putting in the effort and trying to figure out how to learn and get better, that I think like rewarding that rather than just always the outcome is really important.
It is, it should be rewarded just as much as results. I love it.
Yeah. Another thing that comes to mind, for me in terms of applying this book to small business is the idea of responding to criticism. Yes, when she talks about this in the book, she explains that people with fixed mindset, when they're criticized, they completely shut down. They don't want to hear it, they get defensive, they have excuses, they blame it on other people, or the tech failing or whatever it is, they don't tend to take responsibility. Whereas People with a growth mindset can find a way to look at the criticism and learn from it. And you know, maybe disregard anything that's not relevant. But if it is, like actual useful criticism, view it as like, almost a gift in a way, like, Oh, here's a way that I can get better. I'm excited about this, because I can improve because if it's not, I feel like this is a just like a personal label on me. And I think this relates to small business because we do get criticism, maybe it's someone who disagrees with like things are saying online, maybe it's a customer who is not happy with something or something went wrong. Maybe I'm trying to think of other examples, just you will run up against times where someone's not happy with you and to say that maybe if you have a fixed mindset, your instinct would be to get defensive, but just having this response of like, what can I learn from this, I think is such a beautiful way to reframe that.
Charelle Griffith
Yeah, it's a really good point you brought up because actually you're talking as well about that, I suppose some unsolicited feedback, but actually, like one of the things I had to push myself and because I work with other service based people is to be like actually you need to ask your clients in terms of what you could be doing better because that's the only way you can get better is to actually ask the people you're working with but that means requires a massive growth mindset because you're literally like putting it out there to get criticized but rather like, solicited criticism, you're actually putting yourself out there, and if like a while is a question that I'd like just make self my survey. And then I was like, no sure, oh, you need to put it there you need to do. But it's hard because you know, you are opening yourself up. But that is a real example of a real growth mindset when you're like, actually, I know for me to do the best of my business, I, as part that is one of the things as an offboarding process, you should be truly finding out if there was anything else you could do. So you can keep refining and improving for the future.
Lauren Tilden
Such a great point. And I think for those listening, who are product based business owners, the way that we can apply that is just by asking for feedback on your product. So whether it's like a formal review thing, like you're asking for reviews, or having a follow up email to transactions that says, I really want to know, like, what did you think of this product, and inviting that feedback is, is scary, but But what you hear will only make things better. So yeah, and it just also reminds me of like the whole process of having an ideal customer and really getting to know that person and finding out what what resonates with them what they like, what they don't like, how they feel served, how they don't feel served, like, the more you get to know that person, the more that you can or like a to the point of feedback, the more feedback you get from that person, the more you can make the changes that will make your product or your business even more effective and successful. So that's a great point.
Here's the question I really like thinking about because I'm, I'm very much like a self help, self improvement person. So hopefully, we've convinced people listening. And if they've read the book, they probably are already convinced that the growth mindset is really something to aspire to, like in all aspects of your life. But how do we actually become someone with a growth mindset? Like maybe we've gotten to the point where we can identify a fixed mindset in ourselves or in certain parts of our lives? How do we actually go about shifting that if we notice that we have some room to grow here?
Charelle Griffith
So, Carol wrote down like a four step process in the book, she would called it, like, the journey to a growth mindset. So stage one is all about awareness, which is actually just like, embrace the fixed mindset. And I truly do believe this is the first step, I think we can only change what we're really aware of. And so acknowledging where you have the fixed mindset, because I think as well, that Lauren mentioned earlier, we're not normally fixed in every single aspect of our life. And so it might be that you are like, it might be that personally, you have quite a growth mindset be like you have a fixed mindset around your business, or like vice versa. So just really trying to notice, okay, do I have an fixed mindset? If I do have a mindset? What areas of my life? Is it really starting to come up? Like, where's it coming up for me? So embrace in embracing that and being like, totally aware, and then it's like being aware of your fixed mindset triggers.
So working out what leads you into a fixed mindset, essentially. So that could be you know, I think like we both said, is it a label that when people say something, you totally re embody that, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true, rather than actually challenging it. And remember, no, that's who I was XY years ago, or that's just someone's opinion, that isn't a fact. And I think that whole thing about being able to split opinion and fact, particularly when it comes to labels that you're being given, for example, make a massive difference. This one, I thought, this one was a bit of a funny one for me, to just like, name, your fixed mindset persona, I always quite struggle with any book that tells is quite common. Anything to do, like limiting beliefs will always be like, or anything in my mindset, since like, she says, separate it and make it a different person, and give it a persona so that you can identify it as like, part of you, but not the whole of you. And so that's why you get to a point where you can feel as if you can change it, because, or you can remove it because you're not like destroying your whole self in the process. Yeah, so you got to make your fix.
Lauren Tilden
I want to read an example because I'm really glad you brought this up, this example of like giving it a name. When you see the fixed mindset show up. Can I read an example from the book of someone saying her fixed mindset just to kind of make it really clear? So she gives an example of one of her students who named her own fixed mindset. And this is what the student wrote. She said, meet Gertrude, my cagey, histrionic, self aggrandizing fixed mindset persona, she sneaks into my subconscious and undermines me. The name Gertrude means strong spear, which reflects her insistence on unwavering natural strength. She detests hard work, second place and imperfections. Any whiff of failure or imperfection can trigger, can trigger Gertrude's entrance. Three seconds slower in a swim race, no shot at the varsity team didn't draw as good a self portrait as another girl in my class. Art isn't your thing. couldn't use as many big words as my older sister, you'll never be as smart as her. Gertrude convinces me that failure is definitive, one mistake can take away my future success. I think, for a lot of us like this fixed mindset, for me, at least it sounds a lot like my like internal critic. It's like not so nice voice in your head. But if you can learn to notice, and like I do actually like this activity of giving it a name. I personally haven't yet. You know, something to think about.
Charelle Griffith
Well give it a go. Choose a name and write the passage like that one, like Gertrude is so vivid, and I think the more vivid, you make it that the idea is, it just helps you to really identify it. So if anyone's listening, give it a go. See if it helps you. As I said, I find it a little bit weird. But I know it does work for lots of people. So it's not to say don't give it a go. And then once you've actually got your fixed mindset persona, you've identified it, you've written it down, you've given them a name, that's when the whole education process starts. And that's where you can then start to go on this journey to actually develop a growth mindset.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, a couple of times throughout the book, she gave some examples of different reflection questions that you can ask yourself that I love a good prompt, whether it's for journaling, or just thinking about or whatever it is. So throughout the book, I highlighted a few which I'll share, which I think, really yeah, they go into this kind of fourth step of you've identified your growth mindset, you've kind of gotten the hang of what triggers it, you've named it maybe, or at least have found a way to really clearly see when it's showing up? And then how do we practice? So here are some of the questions that I took note of, at the end of the day asking yourself, what did you learn today, rather than what did you accomplish today? asking yourself, what mistake did you make today? Because mistakes are a sign that we're actually doing things? What are the opportunities for learning and growth today? So I love all three of these questions, because I feel like they just give you a chance to reframe what success will look like. And any given day, it's much more about the effort that you put in being willing to make mistakes, being willing to fail, for the sake of like progress.
Charelle Griffith
And it also has a real focus on actually learning. And I think that the questions you shared like one of them definitely, like more like a morning prompt versus the other two like, at the end of the day, it's like, you start your day thinking about like, what can I learn today? And then you actually have the end the day what am I learned? Like, can you just imagine how much you'd be constantly growing and learning and just improving and becoming better in so many different ways? Because you can't, you can't if you have that type of attitude, like that's just inevitable is gonna happen.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, and and that learning, I guess these questions kind of imply that learning is the goal, that through learning, that's how we succeed and get better and achieve more, not through just really fixating on labeling ourselves as smart or natural talents or natural creatives, whatever it is, but by actually putting in the work to learn.
A couple other thing I just wanted to touch on is I really liked how broad in the book, she was able to apply this, this concept of the fixed and growth mindset, like so across so many different parts of your life. As a brand new parent, I'm definitely thinking about this in terms of parenting, because I think she makes a huge effort to convey how important the words that we use are, whether we're talking to ourselves or members of our team, or kids, like constantly calling your kids smart. Like I said before, or talented or unnatural like these actually, they do feel good to hear in the moment as a kid. But when some time has passed, you start to believe it like that's where your value is, as a person is in, you know, this, I'm naturally smart. Therefore, like I can't show that it took me effort to be smart. You know, I have to just have this facade that I keep up and really about presenting an exterior. That's what we can create, through how we teach our kids like what matters basically.
So I'm thinking a lot about this concept as a parent. She also has some good examples of using it in relationships. So whether it's like your romantic relationship or friendships, she talks a lot about defensiveness and blame and, you know, being having a growth mindset when it comes to being a good friend or a good partner. Not feeling like not learning how to not take criticism. So personally, basically, I'm being willing to get better at being a partner and a friend and putting the work in and not just thinking that oh, this Is my marriage. So if, if it's hard if it requires any work, that means there's something wrong with it. She's like, her theory is very different that all relationships take work and effort and that's not a sign that there's something wrong, it's a sign that you're taking care of it and the weight that needs to be taken care of.
Charelle Griffith
And I really like it because we've heard talk about relationships, taking effort, and hard work. I think also, I was like, actually, that makes sense as well for like people that have both got a growth mentality, because the more time they're together, you'd expect there's going to be more change. And so actually, if you've got two people that have had like, a fixed mindset, and they're just basically the same person, 10 years later, whereas if you've got two people who are both actively trying to aspire to have a growth mindset and push themselves and learn, there are inevitably going to be some changes, and therefore, both as an individual, and as the two of you, you're going to have to work it to continue to make it work because you're evolving, and you're not staying the same person that they first met.
Lauren Tilden
Such a good point. Such a good point.
And I think that's true with friendships, too. Like, yes, romantic relationships, but also, you know, just friendships, business relationships, Team relationships, whatever it is just yeah, if you're, if you both got a growth mindset, which we hope you both do, that just means more it's gonna change. So I love that point. Let's start to wrap this up with practical takeaways from this book. So when we had our first conversation together, Charelle, where we introduce you to my podcast listeners, and I asked you, like, what, how do we actually take what we learn from the books that we read and make sure that we're doing something about it, like actually implementing something as a result of reading it and not just continuing to read book after book after book and not actually doing anything about what we learn? How do we do something about what we learn.
So what you said that I really loved is to kind of not bite off more than you can chew, pick, write down a few things that are kind of your main takeaways or your main things that you are going to do differently as a result of this book. So we don't need to necessarily prescribe what these have to be for people, but what, what would they be for you? What would they be for? Like, what would you recommend as your top takeaways as a result of reading Mindset?
Charelle Griffith
So my biggest thing I took away was about keep setting goals for growth. And so cuz I'm always I'm already a big goal setter, I was like, actually, this is just about changing my approach to goals. And suppose not always necessarily writing goals that were all about the accomplishment and the end. But also setting goals that were just challenging myself, that would require some learning that would require me to upskill. And to put myself in situations where I'd grow. So that was definitely, personally for me want to take aways because it was something I could do. But it sort of integrated with what I already was doing in my life.
Lauren Tilden
For me, um, I talked about this a little bit already, but I think my biggest takeaway is really around, being willing to put in the effort, even if the outcome is uncertain. So just an example of that concept is I'm launching a pro version of this podcast very soon, like a membership. And this is not something I've ever done before. So I'm noticing all kinds of mindset things showing up for me, but has been really fun to contend with haha. And so the fixed mindset, part of me wants to be like, well, there's no guarantee this is going to be a huge success. So why put any effort into it, it could just be a big waste of your time. And so I'm really challenging myself to be willing to put in the effort, even when the outcome is uncertain. Being willing to put myself out there, being willing to, I don't know, put myself at the risk of failing, which I guess has been a big topic of this conversation. Because that is really what the growth mindset is all about understanding that that willingness is what eventually will get you to success.
Charelle Griffith
I really liked what you mentioned, you said like, about uncertainty. Like you can try it, but you know, you're gonna give it a go, but you're uncertain about the outcome. But the reality is, we're always uncertain. It's just sometimes we feel because of the past that we have a bit more control over what the outcomes gonna be. Like, we feel that okay, this is going to be successful. This is going to work. But actually, everything in life is uncertain. But I think it was for me, I was like, Oh, that would really popped out because I actually that's what it is about sometimes with that. Something that you think isn't going to possibly work. If you've got a growth mindset. It's just like ignoring that and just be like, I'm gonna give it a go. I'm going to try regardless of what I believe is going to happen. Hmm. And knowing that, even if the outcome is not what you hoped that even in that there is something to be learned and to grow from basically viewing, yeah, in everything. Knowing that there's something to learn. And so I guess that would be my other big takeaway is just reminding myself to always ask when things go right when things go wrong, like, what can I learn from this? Because there always is something to learn.
And I was gonna say, the biggest, like, what I tested, probably the easiest way to like start this process is just by accident. If you already have a journaling practice, add in those prompts that Lauren mentioned earlier, because if you truly woke up every day and thought in the morning, what could I learn today, and then the day you reflected to me personally, like the reflecting, and what I've learned is really powerful. And so like actually being able to, like, collate it and see it over time. Because sometimes, well, we forget what we've actually learned. And we sort of take for granted, the change that's happening. So being able to like, document it and be like, Oh, my gosh, actually, I've learned all these things last year. Like that's a really powerful process. And that helps to remind you that growth is possible. And if you've done it once, you can do it again.
Lauren Tilden
Yes, so good. So good. I am really excited that we started with this book, because I think, yeah, it's something I want to just remind myself to read like, once a year or once every couple years, because I've now read it, I read it most of it one time, and now I read it, I read it all the way through just now. And it just sparks so much thought and so much. I just like excitement about what's possible when you really can get a hold of your mindset and have a little bit more of intention around the beliefs that you let guide your decisions and your actions. So really glad we started with this one.
Let's reveal our next book, which is I'm also really excited about this one I think it is the perfect book to start January with. So we'll be having our January book club episode on this book. And this is also one of the books that has been most recommended by my podcast guests. So if you listened to interviews before, you know that I asked every guest for a book recommendation Charelle refused to answer this because she has so many books she loves. But most guests answer it and this is this book has been recommended. Probably the second most I'd have to do the adding. I think it's the second most recommended book. And this book is do you want to announce it Charelle or should I?
Charelle Griffith
This the drumroll! It is Atomic Habits!
Lauren Tilden
Yeah. Atomic habits by James clear. Have you read it yet, Charelle?
Charelle Griffith
I have read it. It is such a good book. So I read it a few years ago and actually made the reading list for my book club. So I 100% agree with you. And probably every single other guests that has recommended it. I'm so so glad that we've chosen it to be to be in the book club, and particularly for January. I think it's a great book for everyone to read at the start of the year like such a good book.
Lauren Tilden
Yeah, I haven't read it yet, actually. So I used to read his blog years ago, but I have not read the book. So this is very exciting for me to have a brand new one to get my hands on and get my head around. So everyone, pick up a copy Audible or hardback, whatever you like. But start reading that one. And we will keep you posted. And again, just to keep in the loop with all things Making Good book club, go to makinggood podcast.com/bookclub and you can just pop your name in there. And we'll make sure that every time we have a new book announcement or the episodes come out that we can notify you about that. So Charelle, thank you so much for this. This is such a blast. I loved this conversation about Mindset. I'm so glad we started here. I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks. And yeah, thanks for, thank you so much for co-hosting this with me.
Charelle Griffith
You're absolutely welcome. I really enjoyed it. And yeah, I can't wait to hear what other people think about it as well because I think everyone who reads a book picks up something different and that's one of the beauties of why I always do this. I think I learn just as much from hearing other people's thoughts as like you do your own so I can't wait to hear what people think.
Lauren Tilden
Yes, everyone, if you have something to add to this conversation or just something you agreed with or disagreed with even better, take a shot while you're listening to the episode and tag us both on Instagram. And we would love to hear what you think and what you have to add. So Charelle is @CharelleGriffith Did I get that right?
Charelle Griffith
That's perfect.
Lauren Tilden
And I'm @LaurenTilden, so we can't wait to hear from you. Thank you for listening.
So there you have it. The first edition of Making Good Book Club is officially in the books. See what I did there? Charelle and I both want to hear from you. What did you think of the book and our takeaways, do you agree, disagree or have something to add? Connect with us on Instagram and let us know Charelle is @CharelleGriffith, and I'm @LaurenTilden. Notes from this episode can be found on the show notes page at makinggoodpodcast.com/92. And finally, I would so love to work with you inside of Making Good Happen, my brand new membership kicking off in January. Get all of the details at makinggoodpodcast.com/happen and to lock in your monthly rate at the lowest price that will ever be available. Be sure to sign up before December 18. Thank you for being here and for focusing on making a difference with your small business. Talk to you next time.